Recently, I have been posting on a forum who's slant is life, politics and Christian values and all of the surrounding ideas, thoughts and flotsam which surround a forum which tries to appease the political and religious.Just recently the idea of the personal ownership of small arms and how it applies to the Second Amendment came up and revealed some interesting biases. Especially coming from those who call themselves Conservative. I have re-printed the meat of our discussion below:
My words:
semi auto just refers to its action type. they can be single shot or high capacity(which means 11 rounds or more by Billy Clinton's estimation). since it is a God given right, and not a right that is bestowed by gov on the people, i do not think i need to show anything.
His:
Ah, but you are missing the point. While I do not claim that the RTBA does not exist and citizens should not have that right, I do question what possible good can it come to for civilians to have the right to semi-automatic assault rifle, a fully automatic uzi, or a grenade launcher for that matter. For what, hunting and personal protection? I think not. So while, I can agree that the RTBA exists, I cannot in good conscience agree that that right cannot or should not be abridged in today's modern society. The United States has a professional all volunteer military and no longer a civilian militia. Therefore, I highly question the need for civilians to have the right to own and use this class of weapons. Show me why you need that right.
(BTW, This is where my point about the strict constructionist interpretation of Constitution comes in. For a true strict constructionist would not interpret the second amendment to mean that citizens have the right to own an uzi unless they are members of a civilian militia that can be called up to protect the United States. Those days are gone. Those that stretch the interpretation of the second amendment are just doing what liberals do--derive meaning from which there is no meaning inferred in the Constitution or the minutes from the Constitutional Convention.)
My words:
whew. since replying to your reply on my posts would end up with a ten foot long extravaganza, i will take one of your re-replies and show you where you are wrong.
His words:"Ah, but you are missing the point. While I do not claim that the RTBA does not exist and citizens should not have that right, I do question what possible good can it come to for civilians to have the right to semi-automatic assault rifle, a fully automatic uzi, or a grenade launcher for that matter. For what, hunting and personal protection? I think not. So while, I can agree that the RTBA exists, I cannot in good conscience agree that that right cannot or should not be abridged in today's modern society. The United States has a professional all volunteer military and no longer a civilian militia. Therefore, I highly question the need for civilians to have the right to own and use this class of weapons. Show me why you need that right." -------
My refute:
""Ah, but you are missing the point."- i believe you had no point expressed here. you threw out the term semi auto, which is just an action type. whether single shot or 5 or 10 or 30. i do not understand why you point out this type of weapon. oh well.
His words:
"While I do not claim that the RTBA does not exist and citizens should not have that right, I do question what possible good can it come to for civilians to have the right to semi-automatic assault rifle, a fully automatic uzi, or a grenade launcher for that matter." -------
My refute of his misleading comment:
OK. grenade launcher. we have to first get our classifications straight here. anything over 20mm is considered ordnance. think cannon. big time boomboom stuff. what we speak of with the 2ndA is in terms of small arms, way different than ordnance, so we can eliminate that part of your comment.
UZI. say oooohzzzeee, sounds ominous don't it? this is a sub machine gun, fully automatic. now in most states a person can own a fully automatic weapon. but they are very expensive, the attrition on the weapon is very high because of its cyclic rate, and you would have to be an armorer to keep it in operating order. plus, you must pay a high FED tax, jump through hoops, etc. it is very prohibitive to own a fully auto weapon.
assault rifle, a fully auto matic weapon. to be an assault rifle, it must have a selector for automatic, single and safe positions. see comment above for more.
so, after we blow the smoke and haze and mis-leading language away, what we have left is semi auto's. an action type that has been around for a century, in pistol form, shotgun form and pistol form.
this type is used for plinking, hunting, selfdefense, and long range target competition. nothing new or dangerous about it.
His words:
"I cannot in good conscience agree that that right cannot or should not be abridged in today's modern society. The United States has a professional all volunteer military and no longer a civilian militia. Therefore, I highly question the need for civilians to have the right to own and use this class of weapons. Show me why you need that right." -------
My words:
If it bothers your conscience, fine. i support you not owning a gun. in fact that might be best for all.
the military has nothing to do with the 2ndA other than to defend it along with the rest of the constitution. your personal safety starts with you, not the 9-1-1 operator. You want me to show you? Look at your copy of the Constitution under 2ndA, you will find it their. A right is a right, not a need. As you have the right not to own, i have the right to own. needs and rights are two different things.
Read:
Makeshift militias patrol neighborhoods
In the Algiers neighborhood of New Orleans, dozens of neighbors banded together to protect their neighborhood.
"There's about 20 or 30 guys in addition to us. We know all of them and where they are," Gregg Harris said. "People armed themselves so quickly, rallying together. I think it's why [our] neighborhood survived."
Harris isn't joking about the armaments. A gun battle erupted one afternoon between armed neighbors and looters. Two of the thugs were shot.
Since then, no more looters have bothered the neighborhood. But the neighbors aren't letting their guard down. They all take their turn keeping watch.
This will, if you can open your mind out of the UN induced thought process in your mind, hopefully help to explain what the militia is to you. 32 million gun owners provide a great deterrent to all kinds of tyranny. the gov can not insure your safety. a 20 round mag out of a well practiced with rifle goes a long way in insuring that.
---------------------He no longer wants to speak with me it seems, since his last post accuses me of being an extremist and partisan, unwilling to cede any point.
My only answer to him would be : Never ever ever ever compromise your values. To do so is only appeasement and leads to the degradation of societies values.
Now, if you will excuse me, I must prepare my gear for an extended outing at my local range.